Maturity in Devotional Service

Srimad Bhagavatam

Maturity in Devotional Service (Rajkot, 27-01-2009)

Maharaj: (Reading the list of 99 names from Quran given by Murli Pr), These are all names of God. 

Murli Pr: Yes all these are names.

Maharaj: Jabbar, I know one Jabbar.

Girivaradhari Pr: They chant these names in the beads.

Maharaj: They are chanting?

Girivaradhari Pr: Yes Maharaj.

Maharaj: Oh, they chant then?! (laughing)

Girivaradhari Pr: Maharaj, they carry the small beads, like our 27 beads, they have 33 beads and chant. So 3 times 33 they chant the 99 names. I also carry the 27 beads, nobody asks me any questions (in Abu dhabi).

Maharaj: Oh this is nice, you have some information. Aham sarvasya prabhavo, if you chant Krishna’s names then everything is there. I always tell that in London there is no sun, but all the devotees are sparkling. They must get sun from somewhere. This is aham sarvasya prabhavo, because they are serving. Everywhere we get everything from Him. The very means of conquest. Jayam udirayet, everything comes.

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: Maharaj, yesterday, at the end of Ratha yatra (Dwarka), Krishnamayi mataji from Mumbai, she asked me a few questions. Of course, we have all asked these questions to you Maharaj many times and I said the same answer to her, but somehow the intellect thing she is not able to understand. She is asking, “How can Krishna allow someone to commit suicide. Can we consider that as an accident or how can He being all merciful allow someone to commit wrong and what will happen to that person and all that.” As Maharaj has answered earlier also, we have asked about the accidents and such things, it appears like that person is doing but Maharaj said that it is not accident. Everything is under Krishna’s plan. That she was not able to accept.

I told one thing that we are seeing at this much height, we cannot understand Krishna’s plan. Krishna is seeing from a higher level. We can’t see that. We have to transcend the modes to some extent to even understand what He is saying. So I went through the devotional route that first we should see where Krishna is and how small we are, and we cannot try to ask these ‘why’ questions to Him, that why He is actually doing it. The same example that Maharaj says…

Maharaj: There is a verse in the 1st canto that nobody knows Krishna’s plan…

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: Yes, that Bhishmadev’s verse – that nobody knows the plan of the Lord, I maintain that everything is under His control. But the thing is Maharaj, even though the verse is there, they want to see from the logical perspective.

Maharaj: No, as soon as the logic enters, Krishna vanishes (laughs). So if Krishna is not there, it is all dark, you cannot understand anything. And the mind of woman is very narrow. They think that they are very clever, that is the difficulty. Man, the man works for the whole life to the extent that he breaks his spine and even then at the end, he has to hear, that “You are buddhu and I was clever. That’s why you have money. (laughs)”. What to do? At that time, he is helpless, because he has to depend upon her, (because he is) invalid or whatever. (He has to say) “Alright, from the beginning I know you are clever” (laughs), just to have chappati.

The thing is, adamancy is there because of the wrong assumption that they are clever. But Vedic women, they are simpleton. No egoistic attitude of education or anything. They know only one thing, that whatever the husband tells is correct. That is their protection. And they are protected beyond their limit, for their simplicity (whatever he says is right). This one old couple is here. They were initiated 5 years ago. Every year they come, stay for 1 month and go away. That wife doesn’t know anything. She says “Whatever he tells I do”. See, very simple couple. But here, whatever she does he has to do, means kali yuga. So it is very difficult to find out the simpleton ladies. Otherwise Vedic woman will never present herself to the society, ignoring the husband. Never. Never, never ever. Vedic woman will always be very happy keeping herself at the background. Here the Queen walks first and Duke walks 15 feet behind. That is western world. Here the Duke will never be walking first. That’s Queen. It is very difficult to go back and that’s why the disaster is there. If you don’t go back, disaster is there. Somehow or the other, our life is gone. But these children, I don’t know really what they have to undergo. And there is no exception to this because time is dictating, sarvam kala krtam manye. Time’s force is working.

We will take 2.6.37. Give somebody who doesn’t know Hindi (English copy of Bhagavatam).

Mantra and verse chanting (Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya…).

Maharaj: Sing in kavim puranam…

Devotees chanting the verse…

Kalacakra Krsna Pr singing…

naaham na yuyam yad-rtaam gatim vidur
na vaamadevah kim utaapare suraah
tan-maayayaa mohita-buddhayas tv idam
vinirmitam caatma-samam vicakshmahe

Maharaj: (to devotees entering in...) Come here, you had a nice time in Dwarka?

Kalacakra Krsna Pr singing…

Girivaradhari Pr singing…

Hrshikesh Pr singing…

Purna Prajna Pr singing…

Maharaj: (to Purna Prajna Pr) If you can read, anybody can read… (laughs). He rang me when he completed his reciting, he was very happy. And that has given him really the clarity of the pronunciation. You please, continue reciting. You are alone isn’t it? You are alone there, still? (laughter). Very nice. So nice to see you. Really, he has picked up so much. Anybody who does the transcendental vibration can never go wrong. This is the transcendental vibration. You may not understand word-word or even translation. Or forget about the purports but vibration is very important. Our supreme vibrator is here with you (pointing to a devotee…). So nice. We want to have throat transplantation, so that our buffalo throat can be real throat. Very nice. Sing.

Our Svayam Prakash you may not know, he is from Singapore. In 3 months, he has picked up very nice. He is not very good person, but his wife is very good (laughter). To be frank is good, isn’t it? (laughter).

Svayam Prakash Pr singing…

Gopal Krsna Pr singing…

Anandamurti Pr singing…

Murli Pr singing…

Prasannalakshmi Mataji singing…

Kaushalya mataji singing…

Jyestha mataji singing…

Savita mataji singing…

Svayam Sampoorna Pr singing…

Sajjan Priya Pr singing…

(Maharaj reading word-word equivalents and devotees repeating).

na — neither; aham — I; na — nor; yūyam — all you sons; yat — whose; tām — factual; gatim — movements; vidu — do know; na — nor; vāmadeva — Lord Śiva; kim — what; uta — else; apare — others; surā — demigods; tat — by His; māyayā — by the illusory energy; mohita — bewildered; buddhaya — with such intelligence; tu — but; idam — this; vinirmitam — what is created; ca — also; ātma-samam — by dint of one’s personal ability; vicakmahe — observe.

(Maharaj reads the translation and devotees repeating it).

"Since neither Lord Siva nor you nor I could ascertain the limits of spiritual happiness, how can other demigods know it? And because all of us are bewildered by the illusory external energy of the Supreme Lord, we can see only this manifested cosmos according to our individual ability."

(Maharaj asks Kalacakra Krsna Pr to read the purport). 

Maharaj: The thing is, we have already settled the matter by remembering 1.6.25 that vibration is the way to see Krishna. That we have already settled. 1.6.25 you know the translation and purport. Would you repeat?

(All devotees reciting the verse, translation and purport for 1.6.25 together).

In these 4 lines also, some phrases are important. What is that? “There is no difference in identity”. That is a very important sentence. Then, He produced the Vedas by His breathing and He can be seen and realized by the transcendental sound of the Vedas. He could be seen and heard through the transcendental sound of the Vedas. This is Vedic literature you know. Then Bhagavad-gita…, that sentence is best. “The Bhagavad-gita is the sound representation of the Lord and there is no difference in identity.” This settles the matter. These phrases, they settle the matter. So, there is no argument there. Nobody can have any argument about this. Because it is decided. Nirnayam, nirnay, decided truth. So there is no appeal. This is the use of that verse 1.6.25. And because we have been faithfully following that, our devotional service by leaps and bounds it is going ahead.

Murli Pr: No need for logic then…?

Maharaj: No no, No need for logic. Father says, Son does. That’s it. (Maharaj says with great emphasis) Finished. Son doesn’t say “Why’? Father says, “Son come here”, Car is coming. He doesn’t say “Why?”. No objection. This is Vedic culture. Brahma vakya. Always. Prabhupada writes in one purport nicely, formerly there were arguments you know, that “I am correct, you are not…!” Then they ask, “Is it Vedavakya?” The Vedvakya means then there is no appeal. And it was very popular. Everybody knew, Vedvakya means finished. And this is Vedvakya, etavad uktvopararaama tan mahad. How nice it is?! Sing.

(Devotees singing 1.6.25 again…)

So please remember these phrases. No difference. He could be heard and realized by the persistent chanting. That’s the conclusion. In conclusion also there is a phrase. Please these phrases are important. Information is correct, but phrases settle the matter. Please try to meditate on this. And the more you follow, our devotional service always increases. And the thing is, we have to attain the maturity in devotional service. That goes without saying. So for maturity this verse is best (2.6.37), how to attain maturity. We all have difficulty to attain the maturity in devotional service and that’s why we depend upon so many things. Devotional service is non-different from Krishna.

(Maharaj answering phone in Gujarati, lovingly invites one of the local devotees to join the Ratha yatra along with his family and honor prasadam in the festival).

The thing is, Maturity is very important in devotional service. Unless you attain the maturity the propagation of Krishna consciousness is not very easily possible. The father or grandfather can guide the children or grandchildren because they are mature. If they are not mature even grandchildren will not respect them. Mature person is obeyed. Immature person is hated. I know very clearly, in one family one man, he was very strong man but (mental) balance was not there, somehow or other imbalance was there. Children could immediately recognize. The mature man is the controller of the house. This (immature)man will sit somewhere and the children will play around him and will not obey him.

Maturity always gives us one thing, that we completely shut our lips from the material things. Only to the required extent we speak. That is spiritual maturity. (If you are absorbed in Bhagavatam) At the most somebody may accuse you, that "You are only reading Bhagavatam". That is good accusation (laughter). He will accuse, “Whenever I go there, you are reading Bhagavatam”, “Good you also read” (laughs). I mean to say, since Krishna can never be blamed, if we are with Krishna, then we cannot be blamed as well. This is the sign of maturity. And we cannot become mature, unless we take the lessons from the verses like this. Always as soon as the verse comes in front of us, there are different meanings. The whole Bhagavatam has one meaning. That is included in this verse. srimad bhagavatam puranam amalam yat vaishnavaanaam priyam - This is the general purpose. The whole Bhagavatam is amalam - spotless. That is the general purpose of Bhagavatam and it is included here. Then you come to the canto in which this verse is located. So canto has a purpose again. So that purpose is also included here. Then you come to the chapter, it has its own purpose. That is also included here. And then you come to verse. The verse has something to tell you. Again you have to be clear about that message. And again you should not stop there. You go to each word and each word is speaking. So there is unlimited knowledge in one verse. It is not very easily possible in human existence to think about these things. Such an apaurusheya literature is in front of us. A conditioned soul cannot write this. With all these things in my mind, I cannot write a single letter man. What to talk of so many purports? Again we have to remember Bhagavatam, we have to remember canto, again the chapter, again the verse, again the words. This way there is no doubt that this is coming from the higher authority. And that's why it is non-different from Krishna. It is not written by conditioned and re-conditioned soul. We are conditioned and re-conditioned. (laughter).

We were in Fiji, there is one Sunflower airlines, we had to fly from one island to another. The plane was a reconditioned plane man. As soon as the plane landed, it seemed as if somebody is charging so much noise. I asked what is the sound, they said, “your plane”. God! (laughs). I was sitting in it. Somehow or other we flew. I was not sure I will be alive. It started and again the noise was there. Pilot was just by the side because there were only 6 seats. Pilot was eating sandwiches. Somehow or other it took off. I thought when this sound is going to stop. Isn’t it sound proof? “No, no, as soon as we go in the air there won’t be any sound.” (laughter). Ear diaphragm will break.

Then in the cockpit and the plane, the lights went away. And he was swiping to find out the switch man. If he switches on one wrong switch and we are on the hill (laughter). I mean to say, that is recondition. This is how, we create so many difficult situations by reconditioning. We all living entities are not only baddha, we are not only conditioned, but we are reconditioned. Recondition means to stay in A/C, in Abu dhabi (laughter). Recondition. Then we must have a big screen of television, recondition again. We must have wife to cook, recondition again. Again, we must have children to play around till they are young, and then they play around (laughs). So far, you played, now we play. Anyhow, these things, bind us to the material energy. And that’s why it is impossible to find out the literature of this stature wherein not a single thing is there which anybody will disagree. Not even one thing. Nobody can disagree with Bhagavatam. This is why it is amala-puranaAnd maturity is that really if you have unflinching faith in this then we don't require anything. This is maturity. And then we don't need to run here and there for any other achievement. Everything we get from Bhagavatam. That we cannot get from Bhagavatam, we cannot get anytime from anywhere else. That is Krishna's arrangement. So please don't lose the courage. Particularly in trying circumstances we must be very clear about this. Otherwise so many astrologers are there, the bird (parrot) astrologer is there, and we go and spend 20 Rs with him to know the whole life! Man your whole life is what only 20 Rs?

Murli Pr: Maharaj, you know this Shyamsundar Prabhu, Prabhupada’s disciple, famous astrologer, he met with a terrible accident. People asked him, you are a famous astrologer, how come you were not able to predict your own future (laughter). He was paralysed. He is still not able to move.

Maharaj: In India accident and he didn’t die? (laughs) In India accidents means either you survive or you are gone. And no medical treatment. Remember Krishna!

The thing is our situation is very serious you know, in the sense that we are completely enamored by the illusory presentation. You go to see one mall, you are completely lost! Completely lost! Such bright lights man, in the night! Night is not meant for bright lights. So many things, you don't know really what to buy and what not to buy. So many things we don't require and we buy. This is illusion. Again, we don't attain the maturity by even thinking that what is needed for us. If you have a house, that doesn't mean that the whole scratch must come into the house. Only required things should be in the house. Maturity in every field is a must. Our house also cannot really run unless we are mature. Otherwise everywhere we dump, everywhere dirty things are there. Frankly speaking if you are not careful, our half the house should be thrown away to clear. Really every time you have to clear. Now more so, because of these computers. So many papers and mills and unnecessary things come every day we have to tear off. Otherwise piles will be there. This is maturity, and the message of this maturity is very clear. That we don't depend upon anybody. Again to be very mature, this principle that we don't depend upon anybody should not give us the arrogance. Otherwise we become arrogant. So, arrogance and self-dependent - there is a very thin line in between. I depend fully upon Krishna but at the same time my humble attitude is there. Humility is 100% there. I know everything what is happening around and I do my best to do whatever I am doing. Our duties should go on. Not that "Ah, Krishna will sort out". Arrogance should not be there. This is maturity. You know the verse,

phalino namanti vrkshaah / gunino namanti janaah
sushkam ca kaashtam ca / bhidhyate na tu namyate

It’s a beautiful verse. phalino namanti vrkshaah - the tree that has so many fruits, it always bends down, not straight upgunino namanti janaah - the persons who are full of good qualities, they are also humbleSushkam ca kaashtam ca - you know the tree that is dry and stands straight, it will not bend, so it breaks. If the storm is there, it will not bend, so it breaks - na tu namyate. It will never bend but it will break. This is maturity. All different slokas will give us one pattern of behavior. That we should follow. Here maturity in all fields we have to attain.

The example of three mahajanas are given. See Prabhupada's clarity in it! These three svayambhu, narada and shambu. The sloka begins like this:

svayambhu narada shambu / kumaaro kapilo manuh 
prahlaado janako bhishmo / balir vaiyasakir vayam

So total 12 mahajanas but 3 are in the beginning. Prabhupada has given very nice insight - that these three why they are in front. They are the most important. What is that sentence from the purport?

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: "We have many times mentioned the names of twelve selected authorities (dvaadasha-mahajana), of which Brahma, Narada and Lord Siva head the list as the first, second and third in order of merit of those who know something of the Supreme Lord."

Maharaj: In order of the merit - So they should be ahead number 1, 2 and 3 and then comes the other mahajanas 4, 5, 6 etc. So now we are clear in our mind that among mahajanas also these three should come first. This is maturity. And here Brahma says that all these Narada, Shambu, they say that I don't know the limit of Him. So how can Asharam know about it? This is maturity. All Asharams are out of our sight. Asharam is not only one. There are Asharams. These Asharams trouble too much. Somebody, he gives water and gives the name Govinda Jal and they stand in line and all shout Govinda jal, Govinda jal! How can you know that he has given the name?

We should not do this thing at all. Our attention is fixed. vyavasayatmika buddhi eka iha kuru nandana / bahu shaka hi anantash ca buddhayo avyavasaayinaam. Now, really we are very happy that since last 10-12 years we are with you and your children are also grown up now. They are also in Krishna consciousness. In the young age the children may do something here and there but please be generous to them, because after all, the glands are changing you know. So don’t worry too much about young age. We are successful really. This is maturity. We are really successful. Don’t get elated with this idea, that “I am successful” (laughter). I know you people (laughs). Man, what should be done? The thing is, we find something to be important. That is Girivaradhari. I am sorry to tell you in public. In public we should not discuss these things (laughter). “If you pay me then I will keep quiet”. (laughter).

The thing is, the maturity from all angle of thinking must be there and it is a gift, it cannot be cultivated. Gift can only be there if you behave good. So, if cent percent Krishna consciousness is there, then He will give the gift of maturity. Maturity cannot be adopted. We cannot have maturity unless He is merciful. The onus is again on us. The way we do devotional service, to that extent we will have maturity. There is no need of running after any person, but the person who tries to explain the things like Prabhupada, we should follow. Really how nicely Prabhupada has explained this point? Nobody has told us so far that Svayambu, Narada and Shambu are 1,2 and 3 in the list of Mahajanas and those others are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and we run after the 12th.

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: Maharaj, Yamaraj shows his humility there also by putting his name as the last.

Maharaj: Yes, I mean to say, transcendentally there is no difference between the Mahajanas. But there is difference. The maturity is, in Bhagavatam also may be we are not able to study the whole thing but wherever Brahma speaks, Narada speaks or Siva speaks we must be very attentive.

And regarding Siva, there is so much misunderstanding, so these things have got to be cleared. That is maturity. And no way we should run after these demigods and other things.

There are so many manufactured mahajanas. There is mahajana producing factory in India (laughter). Once we settle this, our whole attention is focused. So far we are not focused. Brahma cannot know the limits, Narada cannot know, who are we to know? I immediately claim that I know everything. This hypocritic attitude will kill our maturity. Don't be hypocritic. Damba must be completely avoided. The person who is mature in the real sense of the term, will not show the maturity, he will show in behavior. That's why Brahma is very clear. He says, "I don't know, you don't know and he doesn't know, we three don't know how can the other demigods know?" Then what to speak of anybody else?

Murli Pr: What to speak of scientists?

Maharaj: What to speak of anybody? Scientists are non-sense really. America didn’t go to moon, but India wants to go (laughter). With all the things they went to Arizona. We don’t have any Arizona, we go to Rajasthan (laughter). Are we copying? This is immaturity of the Government. And immaturity of the government causes the general mass’s money to be spent. Man, they couldn’t go, how can you go? “No, no, our scientists are best”. Arre man, nobody is best. He couldn’t do it, they had to plan so many things, and now they don’t talk anything. Some Arizona stones were there, I don’t know what is happening to those stones (laughs). It’s all hoax. Only Prabhupada denied. And many devotees left Prabhupada that time. “You don’t know, they are touching moon.”

Murli Pr: They were massaging, they brought the TV and tried convincing Prabhupada, while massaging him, “Look, look they are in the moon”, (Prabhupada said) “It’s ok, you continue massaging” (laughter). And this guy got fed up, “You don’t believe?” (laughter).

Maharaj: Immaturity is there, and eventually it is proved and now nobody wants to talk about it. 

The thing is we are in a bad world, and in this to have spiritual maturity it is impossible. That's why for this gift we have to have unflinching faith in Him and the behavior pattern should be always in a devotional way. otherwise we can't go forward. 'Show' will not work. Wrappers doesn't change the contentWe wrapped ourselves in dhoti and kurtha. Content does not change. If the content is purified, wrapper eventually becomes famous. Content should be purified. Purification of the 'content' requires understanding of these verses and reading in-between the lines.

Otherwise Brahma, Narada Shambu, purport is alright, very good, very good, very good, Maha Prasad (laughter). Eventually, everything ends up in the stomach. And then too much Mahaprasad is there and “I am going to Argentina for treatment”. (laughter).

Aham sarvasya prabhavo we don't understand at all. “I am the Source of everything” we don’t understand. And even then we think that the cow urine is the best. So I must go to the cows to get cow urine. They don’t know aham sarvasya prabhavo. You chant His names and urine is there! All the medicines are there! Why do you have to run to Argentina? Aham sarvasya prabhavo realization is absent. aham sarvasya prabhavo maturity is completely nil. That's why like a mad person we are running here and there and Trivandrum is benefitted (laughter), Cochin or whatever.

I was there in Trivandrum area. There was one nice center. So that doctor was not able to walk. I told him, “Sorry to tell you, you are not walking, how can you make me walk?” (laughter). He said, “Don’t talk. I have got mystic power.” He does not have any mystic power at all. 9 ‘o clock there is a parade. He will walk around. For him there is a special mat, so that his leg will not slip. Please this way so many things are going on. Because we are not mature in devotional service, that’s why we are running here and there.

Even then in the body there may be something wrong, so some ayurvedic treatment may be required. But be mature about that treatment also. Too much treatment is no treatment at all sometimes. The treatment which is required unlimited, that treatment we don't give. Bhagavatam is required unlimited. No other treatment is required. And Prabhupada has given so many purports, lectures, tapes, and so many paraphernalia. We may not be able to read or hear all these during our lifetime.

This is the way. And don’t read too much also. Even one page is enough for a day to study. We should read canto-wise. That's how continuous study must go on. You have read once, now don’t stop. We should continue again and again. Otherwise like Humayun - he was conquering the countries. Once he conquered one country, he stopped thinking that he has conquered. In the meantime, the country was lost, thinking that I have conquered. We should do nityam bhagavata sevaya. Regularly we must do study. Keep this…! Other treatments are not required. This is maturity again.

Again we have to make allowance for this. We are all family persons. Don't insist that the whole family should sit for the spiritual activities. The housewife may be busy in arranging the house. Children may be going to school. So don't insist. If they come it is alright. But you please continue. Don't shout and scream. This is maturity. Shouting and screaming will spoil your maturity. Eventually we have to make it (to the spiritual world). This is the point Brahma says.

Very nice last sentence in the translation - "And because all of us are bewildered by the illusory external energy of the Supreme Lord, we can see only this manifested cosmos according to our individual ability." This cosmos also, I can only see Rajkot. Ahmedabad is there, no doubt. But I don't see it. My ability is only this. Suppose if I rise in the air, then the ability increases. So I can may be see up to Ahmedabad. If I rise again, then I can see the entire country. But again I come down, ability decreases. Ability here is devotional service, devotional abilityThe more you are with Bhagavatam, the span of your vision increases. That is Brahma's point. That’s what he says. According to individual ability you can view the material cosmos. So what to talk of spiritual? It is completely dream. Many times I have told you, in that (spiritual) field, the cheating is going on, really. From beginning to end, the cheating is there. Because that field is unknown to everybody. Only these three mahajanas are supposed to know something. And they are telling, "We don't know"(laughs). Nobody knows, that’s the truth. Then I claim that I know. I want to become a guru. Please remember. I may be in the front part of the deck. You may be in the middle, back or wherever. But same boat (laughs). Unnecessarily don't fall prey to these things. Same three modes of material nature are dancing in my life, your life and every one of our life. Difference of degree is there but kind is the same.

Please, please, only one thing we are fortunate to have, that whatever modes we have, we are submitting it to Krishna. So He is the purifier. This is again maturity. To believe that He is the purifying force is the topmost maturityjagat pavitram pragrneeta karhicit - He can purify the atmosphere of the whole universe. And if you don't follow that, then you are following the vaayasam tirtham - the pilgrimage place for the crows. That’s why first canto is very important. You have to have the verses with you, arguments you have to have. Otherwise your own minds will not be satisfied. To spend time with Bhagavatam requires great courage. Our Narsingh Mehta sings - "partham pehla mastak mukhi - you have to first cut your head and put in front of you and then walk on the path of bhakti. He says that to come to bhakti, first of all you have to cut your head because everybody hates you for being a devotee. Civilly we have to be dead and then we can follow this path of bhakti. General trend is to follow the illusory energy. That is the general trend. Please remember these things. Maturity is not to think in terms of the temporary manifestation. That is cheating. We are cheating ourselves. Somehow or other we are forced to read Prabhupada's books or we have accepted it voluntarily. So now please do it. Nobody should stop you from being continuously in association with Srimad Bhagavatam. Since last 12 years we have heard so much. Now is the time you should start speaking loudly. So now, we will not speak. You speak and we will hear. Please. This is maturity. When are you going to mature? Your children are speaking. (To Gopal Krishna Pr) Supriya is reciting. What are you doing?

Once I was in Fiji you know. There was a man, he came with the child. So I told him, “Are you coming to the temple?” He said, “No”. Are you reading the books?” he said, “No”. Are you chanting? “No”. I told, “Why did you come?” He said, “This is my child, I am making him a devotee. So if he becomes devotee, I will automatically become devotee” (laughter). So our Gopal Krishna says that. “I am making Supriya a devotee. If she is a devotee, I will also be a devotee”. (laughter). We will find out some corner wherein we can escape. We are proud again, Supriya does this, Supriya does that. Please, those who do, will get. Please don’t find out these things. This is all immature attitude, childish. This is the lesson from this verse. Otherwise we go and worship some demigods, some place or some stones. “Oh this place is mystic”. This babaji gives water and the water is very pure. One goes and then the other goes. Third one doesn’t know and even then he goes. (laughter).

Bhagavatam saves us from all unnecessary laborJivan api mrto hi sah. Living dead. Bhagavatam saves us from these things. Only one thing we should run after and that is 'reality'. Very convenient. So our mind is completely clear. I don't have to go to so many places here and there. If we go to pilgrim places, well and good. If you don’t go, even then it is well and good. Wherever I am, if I am with Bhagavatam all the pilgrim places are there. Don't worry, there is no condition wherever you are. That is maturity. And guide the children like that. The young persons must be guided in this directions. The younger ones are lost. Otherwise, the TV is so very powerful nowadays that the younger ones are completely lost. Second thing now is becoming very powerful, that also we have to smash, that is the laptop. Man, I told, 'lap' is alright, your lap is there but on 'top' we don't have electricity. Child must be there on top of the lap instead of the laptop (laughter), this box. And emails. You should save yourselves from these things. Only for minimal requirement we should touch these things really. Not always. Shukadeva Goswami did not have any laptop (laughter). Svayam Prakash? Your Shukadev might have? (laughter) I mean to say, the things which are obstructing our devotional service should be completely forsaken.

Maturity of understanding these verses can never be there unless there is one pointed attention. Otherwise you can't read in-between the lines. Then you can understand the words. Without maturity you can't understand the verse. But slowly acquire the position wherein you can understand in between the lines. Find out the main message of the verse. Otherwise people are not interested. As it is people don't understand these things. But if they get some direction to develop their devotional service, then some souls are interested. So see the crowd you are talking to. And we have to tell them. Preaching must be there, otherwise our own knowledge is not solidified. To whom am I going to speak if you all are not hear? I might understand myself a bit but not that much really but when I speak I also hear. This is Krishna's words. All these things the more you are attracted to these literatures, the more you will not be this worldly man but Krishna’s man. Transcendental, and that should be there. Otherwise as soon as you glide down from the transcendental to the material atmosphere, the miseries are there. Don’t do that. Please, try to concentrate with all the intelligence you have. This is the real purpose of intelligence.

And we don't want to show anybody that I am a devotee, or I am mature or whatever. For our own good, we have to do it. That way, we should be completely inward. At the moment we are outward, thinking, "What people will think about me?". Man, why to worry about the people? You are going to go away, so you have to do it. Don't worry about these things. Again immaturity. I want to be humble, so I behave very humbly and then I see, "I am humble, does he recognize?" (laughter). This is immaturity. Man, be humble, that's it (Maharaj tells this with a heavy emphasis)! We are so mad! And Krishna is apramattah sahaabhipadyase. He just comes and catches you. He will not wait for you. We do anything and everything, but we don't plan for our death. Never. So many plans we have. But there is no plan for death. Death is a mustahir ivaakhum antakah. It is very nice verse. ahir aakhum. ahir means snake. aakhum means mouse. Immediately catches and swallows without any endeavor. Within a second the mouse was there and he is not there. The same thing is our situation also. The death of ahih, the snake of death is there. For that purpose, we are not ready. We don't even think about it. For death, this maturity must be there.

"When are you going to come to the right point? How many lives you are going to take?" That question you should ask yourself. And Prabhupada makes it very clear. His purports are clear. Please think about it. Just study and think. That's it. As soon as you do that, the maturity will be automatically evolvingsvayam eva sphuraty adah. Sphuraty, what is the translation of sphuraty? Sprouts. Automatically sphuraty adah you know. And then again sri krishna naamaadi na bhaved graahyam indriyaih. How nice word it is? indriyaih cannot graahyamsri krishna naamaadi. naam etc. Etc means all these things are non-different from Krishna. na bhaved graahyam indriyaihBy our senses we cannot graahya. So there must be transcendental sense. And that transcendental sense is the maturity to understand. Please, first we have to use our indriyas and then go beyond.

This verse is nice. sri krishna naamaadi na bhaved graahyam indriyaih. Then how? sevon mukhe hi. Seva. Prabhupada says "Either you serve book Bhagavat or Person Bhagavat." Book Bhagavat is in front of us now, we will worry about person afterwards. But book is there. So seva. Here book doesn't require the massage (laughter). Otherwise we will say, "I am massaging my book." We have to have maturity isn't it? He says, "Yes I am massaging daily". And the whole book becomes oily (thunderous laughter). Please, don't play around. This is how, very clear it is. Either you serve book Bhagavat or Person Bhagavat. nityam bhagavata sevayaa. and na bhaved graahyam indriyaih sevon mukhe hi. The more you are attached to it, teshaam satata yuktaanaam bhajataam priti purvakam dadaami, He promises, "I give them". We don't have faith really. We lack faith. And how long we are going to be faithless? He says,"You be faithless for the whole of life time. In the end you have to obey Me. I am coming (as death), and then you can't deny Me." At that time, we will say, "I don't recognize You." Then Krishna will say,"I don't wait for your recognition. I will just finish you off." na bhaved graahyam indriyaih. For the whole of life time, the senses will be away - outward materially. These senses have got to be purified by continuous chanting, Bhagavat-gita and Bhagavatam. And the whole property will be ours. Unlimited. He is unlimited, everything is unlimited. Please this is the mature science.

I am very happy really, that the children you have cultivated. Kinkar is coming, Karthik is also preaching. Your children are also picking up now. Your children, Radhika’s children, (To Purna Prajna Pr) your children also definitely..., Now when sannyas? (laughter).

Sajjan Priya Pr: (Jyeshta) Mataji is here. (laughter)

Maharaj: No, don’t worry about mataji. (laughter). I have to catch him today (laughter).

One old man came here. I was sitting. He said to me, "I want to take sannyas". I told, "Alright, this is very good idea. Keep on coming to the temple. Slowly we will work out." He said, "No, I have to take sannyas. I have decided, I have to take sannyas." I said again, "Alright, keep coming to the temple." Three times he repeated. I said, "Alright, don't worry. Eventually it will be there." And then slowly he asked, "Did you see my wife here?" (laughter) I asked, "Am I watchman to your wife?" (laughter). On one side he wants to take sannyas. On the other side, he was searching for his wife. I mean to say, we tell one thing but we have something else in our mind. He saw I am sitting on a nice seat, no worry nothing, so he thought, "Let me also take sannyas". Pleasesannyas is a very difficult thing. Four walls only. If you are not interested in these things (serious study of scriptures, chanting etc) the four walls will kill you. So don't be in a hurry to take sannyas. Don’t worry too much (laughter). The thing is, the maturity of coming to Bhagavatam must be cultivated. Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!

You have any questions?

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: Maharaj, the point you told about person bhagavata and book bhagavata know Maharaj. Similarly, in the purport Prabhupada says for the verse idam bhagavatam nama (SB 1.3.40).

"Srimad-Bhagavatam should be worshiped as respectfully as we worship the Lord. Thereby we can derive the ultimate blessings of the Lord through its careful and patient study. As God is all light, all bliss and all perfection, so also is Srimad-Bhagavatam. We can have all the transcendental light of the Supreme Brahman, Sri Krsna, from the recitation of Srimad-Bhagavatam, provided it is received through the medium of the transparent spiritual master."

Maharaj: The recitation is also very good. But apart from recitation, the kali yuga minds are there. They will not be convinced/cultivated by recitation only. So there must be some intelligent approach. Along with recitation of the shlokas some discussion of the subject must be there. Devaki has started, he has 5-6 sincere devotees. All these devotees go to some house and have spiritual discussion. So it’s nice. They call it Bhagavatam discussion. Last time, Govardhan had. (To Svayam Prakash Pr) You also had I think. What are you doing there?

Svayam Prakash Pr: We just go by each chapter; we discuss few verses. We recite beforehand these verses. Everybody comes prepared. And then we have open discussion.

Maharaj: That is needed in Kali yuga. Recitation is needed no doubt. But recitation is a separate thing. Only recitation will not help. After a while it becomes a ritual. So we have to be very careful about it. The live discussion must be there. Somehow or the other people must be interested in it because kali yuga is there. Particularly these young ones, if they don't understand, they don't accept it. For them we have to have thorough discussion. This verse also, we don't have time. Otherwise each word is very powerful. Each word of this verse is whole Bhagavatam. Please, try to read, read, read and re-read. Think about it again and again. Write yourselves. So many diaries must be full. And then you may get something. As Brahma says, "I don't know". So, how am I to claim that I know? Our ignorance is there. Because of ignorance I claim that I know. Nobody knows. We are all trying very hard. The thing is, the more maturity you show in this sense in Bhagavatam the more elevated you will be in the realm (spiritual realm) which we don't have any idea at all. Brahma also doesn't have any idea. So Mahajanas 1, 2 and 3 don't have any idea so how can we have? But they have shown the way, that this is tapasya. You please get up at 4 'o clock. Or whatever time according to your duties. Again, there is a must, in Kali yuga duties must not be neglected. You must. You must.(Maharaj says this with a lot of emphasis).

And all of you, now so many mature people are together. All of you come together, and have some nice yatra somewhere. Wherever you can. Some patch of land is there, you come there to discuss Bhagavatam or whatever. Don’t have elaborate temple like this. But at least one place to assemble you know. And then develop this sishu and pashu. That man coined a very nice name – I want 100 sishu and 100 pashu. That’s how we are running the school here. We have 5 pashus and 200 sishus. But slowly it will increase. It requires water and so many things. But do something on this side, cow side particularly. Cows, maintenance is difficult at the moment, but there is one way you can maintain the cow. If you can prepare some medicines out of gobar and mutra, then you can maintain the cows. On milk alone you cannot do it. But have some factory, some soap powder is there. Some Snan powder also you can manufacture. These are daily requirements. So do along these lines, come together and think about it. Little endeavor and definitely something will be there. This is how. The stage is there, that we must have some place. No doubt your houses are there, but houses are already houses. We must have some place to assemble. And there is nothing wrong in it. Don’t think that the temple is there, why should we assemble on the other side. That is not needed. Temple is temple. Programs are going on there. But we have our own ashramas. Whenever Vyasa Bhagavan wanted to write, he also had Samyapras. Ashram he had. So we want to have some preaching centers wherein you may organize some nice library or something. People can come and read. And definitely if one man is in control, he will develop everything. Please try to find out something. This is again the sign of maturity.

To keep Kali yuga outside your association is the main thing. Kali yuga should not enter. That's why we have to concentrate on our own death. That we are going to go away. Frankly speaking as I tell always, we have only 12 hours to pass. Yesterday is dream now. We were in Dwaraka, that was a fact. But now today that has become a dream. So all the material things they are prone to go into dream. So good or bad, dream is always dream. Then tomorrow is imagination. I don't know whether I am going to be there or not. So we only have this time - 12 hours. So to the best of our ability we have to spend it in maintenance plus spiritual activities. And regarding other responsibilities the children etc., we are not doing much really in that. We arrange something and they go on. That's how it is. If you can spend time with children when they are young, that is best. Because you are the best teacher. The father and mother can teach more than the hired teachers. Please try to spend the time when they are young. As soon as they grow old, they will manage themselves. So that is not a burden really. Frankly speaking, in a Krishna conscious family there is no burden at all. They don't feel burden. If you don't feel that it is a burden, there is no burden. If you feel it is a burden, all the burden comes. So don't feel it. Temporary things we don't feel anything. And one thing you must remember, that till we are alive, we should be ready to see any situationAt the moment the drama is going on. But we don't know tomorrow. Accidents are there, so many unexpected things are there. Within a day you are completely gone. Situations will change. Any situation. But we should not be moved. That is maturity in devotional service. Because nothing is under our control and you go outside the road, don't know what will happen. In India to cross the road is new birth. zebra crossing is there. We are copying zebra crossing. But car also go and men also walk at the same time (laughter). We don't educate the people. Cars also run, trucks also run and we also walk. I mean to say, the risk is too much. Any kind of situation we should be ready to see till we are not gone. This is again really maturity in devotional service. Otherwise we are not prepared for these casualties. Man, we have experience. If some relationship is broken with wife or this or that, how we feel the whole thing is coming down?!

Devotee: They say, “Prepare for the best and expect the worst”.

Maharaj: Yes, that’s very nice. Loudly.

Devotee: They say, “Prepare for the best and expect the worst”.

Maharaj: Sometimes he becomes Guru (laughter). See when I told him to repeat he was elated you know (laughter).

The thing is Good should be accepted from every corner. Nice statement is there in English, "Prepare for the best and expect the worst". And particularly, these relationships, they oscillate our mind. We should not do that. That is not a sign of devotional service. Devotees completely keep quiet. Because rakshishyati iti vishvaaso - our full faith is there that He is protecting. So we don't worry. And nowadays, you can't tell anything. So many kidnappings are there, so many killings are there without any reason. There is no reason for it. But kali yuga is progressing. What all will people do, we don't know really. If they don't have anything to eat, they may come here, kill half the people and then eat and go away. To that extent, the times are very funny now.

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: Maharaj made a statement that we should not be moved, we should not be shaken there is a verse in which Maharaj will give the example of the mountain.

Maharaj: There is a nice slokha from Bhagavatam - girayo varsha dhaaraabhir hanyamaanaa na vivyatuh. The cliff is there. Thunder storms are there. It tolerates. It stands and the storm goes away. The thing is, as I always tell you know, that difficulty is one thing. Somebody might have died in our family, that is a difficulty. But you are dejected, that is another difficulty. So don't add the difficulties. Let the difficulty be one or whatever. You be courageous always. And you have to be courageous in any situation. In any situation please remember always. Please remember the verse spoken by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in Bhagavad-gita 2.3:

klaibhyam maa sma gama paartha / naitat tvayy upapadyate 
kshudram hrdaya daurbalyam / tyaktvottishta parantapa

This is kshudra hrdaya daurbalyam. "This weakness of your heart is cowardness", He says. tyaktvaa - you leave it and uttishta - stand up, please. The situation may be good or bad. But let the situation be good or bad. Don't add to it again. And that we do. If you are dejected, who is going to help you? No no. We should be like the hill which does not shake even after being hit by heavy thunder storms. And what is it after all? Suppose we at the moment, we have income. Tomorrow the income stops. I want only two idlis or two chapattis whatever. What is my requirement? That is nothing really. That will be provided somehow or other. And if not, I will work as a mason or laborer and earn. To that extent we should be ready. Even now, cooks are in demand. You cook nicely and get job nicely. We see here, like a doctor the cook comes, he cooks and goes.

Murli Pr: 15$ an hour he charges for cooking.

Maharaj: I mean to say, the manual jobs are available. Forget about the computers. Worst comes to worst we will not be hungry. Please, this is how we have to pick up ourselves and that is the purpose of Bhagavatam.

Otherwise what are we learning from Bhagavatam? As I told you, we should be ready for any situation. So, high income or low income is not a situation really. It is, because we have responsibility, we have to maintain. So money must come. But it’s alright. For trying, we must be fully energetic. Otherwise you will not have the income back again. You have to be very energetic. And difficulties are always there. Difficulties are always there. This Bhagavatam prepares us for the difficulty. Man, those who have passed their lives, their children are growing up or grown up. They are the most successful people, Krishna’s mercy. But those who are younger ones, they should learn this. Don't get dejected. Eventually everything will be alright. You have to completely reject this dejection. Two verses you should always refer from Bhagavad-gita. Second chapter verse number 2 and 3. Kutas tvaa kashmalam idam and klaibhyam maa sma gama paartha.... naitat tvayy upapadyate - Krishna says, "It doesn't adore you". And those who have completed their life, those who have settled, please, for them, if they don't come to Bhagavatam, I will whip them out (laughs). Now there is no complaint. Agarwal number one. And then you (to another devotee). You have to buy a whip. He says, “I have to spend money for that also?” He didn’t ask me, but he meant it. “What do you mean?” (laughter).

The thing is, the time is very good for you. Please utilize this for increasing the study of Bhagavatam and propagation, so that others may study and they can get advantage from you. And they will also be elevated. And those who are growing, please don't be morose. You be with Bhagavatam and all the difficulties will evaporateDifficulties can't remain in the presence of Bhagavatam. Whatever you are, put your head into Bhagavatam.

(To Girivaradhari Pr) You don’t understand this English; you want it in Marathi? (laughter).

Girivaradhari Pr: Gujarati (laughter).

Maharaj. We will marry you one Gujarati. Learn Gujarati (laughter). Today if you decide we can arrange really (laughter).

Sajjan Priya Pr: Abhira kanya mataji will tear him apart Maharaj.

Maharaj: No, no, Abhira kanya mataji is there now, when she tears we will see. (laughter). What is she going to tear? “I am not coming” he says.

Sajjan Priya Pr: If he is not coming, I will go there know? (laughter)

Maharaj: You take care, you are generous, magnanimous (laughter).

Girivaradhari Pr: You are Sajjan, you should be Sajjan. (laughter). 

Maharaj: See! He knows (laughter). He knows already. Sajjan should be really Sajjan. I mean to say, just the idea of marrying in the evening, how elated he is (loud laughter). For Bhagavatam he is never elated. Never! Man, you should be whipped here. (laughter) We are going to write to Abhira kanya, don’t allow him in the house. (cheeks) Red, man! (laughter) Hey, you are married!! (laughter). Anyway, we enjoyed. We enjoyed your marriage (laughter). Pay dakshina now (laughter). Somehow or the other, we have to have some diluting session in Bhagavatam, at your cost (laughs).

If the ‘try’ class is there, take somebody to get married and they will be elated. (laughter). I am pointing out to the retired persons, vanaprasthis.

I was very happy to know that you have read the whole Bhagavatam (to Purna Prajna Pr). You should be always alone now. (laughs). He says, “I will not come to you at all”. (laughs).

Our attachments, unless they are snatched, we will not give up. That is the way Krishna has arranged. Till death we are attached. Prabhupada was giving the example, you know, this frog has a tongue. It can stretch and catch the insect from far away. One frog was in the mouth of the snake but it saw the fly and it snatched. We are like that. We are already in the jaws of snake, within a second he is going to swallow, but still we want to enjoy. This is our attitude. Without fail we will do this, definitely. This is how we are material.

Purna Prajna Pr: The butchers’ goat Prabhupada gives the example.

Maharaj: Yeah the goat does not have any idea. This is how we behave. Our maturity is that we are very awake to this snatching away business. One day it is going to go away. 

(To Kalacakra Krsna Pr) That sentence you had written one day?

Kalacakra Krsna Pr: san nimitte varam tyaago vinaashe niyate sati.

Maharaj: San nimitte do something, otherwise it is going to be finished. But many times what happens, that the permanency, we always feel that it is permanent. We don't feel it is temporary. If you really feel it is temporary, then we can do something. But we are not feeling. What happens then? In religious purposes, some percentage is asked. That you please 2% or 1% of your income, whatever you can save, you donate. So this way, some renunciation is there. But we don't feel it at all. Now because of the study of Bhagavatam, here every page tells us that we are temporary. How many times you forget? Daily you go to Bhagavatam, it says, "You are temporary". But we say, "Arre man, I agree I am temporary", (laughter) but even then we are not willing to renounce.

Gopal Krishna Pr: Maharaj, we try to find loopholes in Bhagavatam with ways to see we are permanent.

Maharaj: Because the soul is eternal, we don't feel that we are going to die. Man, those who are younger than me, they are gone and I am still thinking that still I have 20 years to go. And my 20 never becomes less (laughter). Since I was 60 years old I was thinking, another 20 years, now 29 are gone, even then I am thinking another 20. This is how we are attached to the illusory energy. And then I take comfort, "Svayam Prakash is attracted to illusory energy and I am not." I am more attracted (to illusory energy) than him. We look to others, always comparing. Don't compare. You try to have your own field. Individual ability. see Prabhupada's words, Individual ability. Mass ability will not do in spiritual matters. It should be individual ability. And that's why in the family also, till they are young they will obey, but don't insist. You go on. They are looking at you. so if you really give that picture in their eyes, they will do the same thing when you are not here. Our children will do the same thing as we are doing now. They may go hither and tither in young age. But they are bound to do the same thing as you are doing. They also have to face more terrible miseries than us. Times are very bad. If they are with Bhagavatam, they will be protected and we are always taking help of the Bhagavatam, we are taking help of the programs, this, that etc. If they could be molded in that way, it is best. That is how we should behave. It is very nice of you to come together and discuss these things. Please have the discussions so that it will really give you very nice answers yourself. Many times we don't know but the answers come because of the discussions. This our granthraj forum is best. The granthraj offerings are really practical. Please send all of you. Purna Prajna, once in a year?! ‘One man’, I read your offering. One man, what was it? He was denying or something, that offering was there, that’s it. (laughs) And daily he goes to work, daily he gets salary. Salary must be niyamit. But offering once a year. Please increase.

Jai Srila Prabhupada ki Jai!! Srila Gurudev ki Jai!!!